2024 Age difference anakin padme

Anakin was born in 41BBY, so their age difference is 16 years. A still of Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan from Disney+ series Obi-Wan Kenobi (Image via Official Star Wars website). The master-apprentice .... Emissions test 159th

Oct 27, 2022 · The age difference between Anakin and Padme is a crucial plot point in the Star Wars prequel trilogy, as it helps to highlight the forbidden nature of their relationship. As we all know that due to Star Wars Universe, Jedi are not supposed to have close relationships with others, but Anakin and Padme's love is too strong to ignore. Jan 14, 2014 · Les personnages: - À l'âge de 14 ans, Padmé devient démocratiquement la souveraine du peuple de la planète Naboo et gouverne sous le nom de Padmé Amidala. - Anakin âgé est quant à lui âgé de 9 ans lorsqu'il est découvert par Qui-Gon sur la planète Tatouine. L'écart entre les personnages n'est donc que de 5 ans, ce qui en soi n'est ... The MIT Center for Work, Family & Personal Life states that young adulthood is generally viewed as the ages between 18 and 25. In certain cases, young adulthood is defined as the a...Most Jedi are brought to the Temple on Coruscant at a very young age before they can truly remember their families back home. While Ahsoka Tano was discovered by Master Plo Koon at the typical age of three, her master, Anakin Skywalker, was nine years old when he was brought to the Jedi. This may initially seem like an …If age is anything like Humans then she is 13 years old in 33 BBY. 32 BBY: The Trade Federation invades the planet of Naboo and this is where the Phantom Menace takes place. Anakin Skywalker is introduced on the Planet of Tatooine where he is 10 years old and Padme is 14 years old.4 years is not a big deal once you're over twenty. Besides, Portman and Christensen are the same age so you kind of forget it. I think the difference was there to imply oedipus complex on Anakin's part. Shmi and Padme even resemble each other somewhat (although it could have been a coincidence).Jul 11, 2023 · Originally, according to the book, George Lucas imagined Anakin being around 12 years old in "The Phantom Menace." However, that didn't seem to work for some of the bigger moments in the story ... In Short. Padmé Amidala was the Queen of the planet Naboo. She was the wife of Anakin Skywalker and the mother of Luke and Leia Skywalker. She played an important role in shaping the story of Star Wars. When we talk about Star Wars, certain characters were there before the Skywalker Saga began and had a substantial role in …The age difference between Anakin and Padme is an intriguing aspect of their Star Wars love story. With Padme being five years older than Anakin, their connection defies conventional norms and leads to a forbidden romance.Oct 2, 2023 · Anakin Skywalker was a mere 9 years old when Padmé entered Watto’s shop on Tatooine. However, it would take another decade before the embers of romance began to flicker between them. The Age Difference Between Anakin and Padmé. When Anakin first encountered the future love of his life, he was just a boy, while Padmé was a young teenager. Most Jedi are brought to the Temple on Coruscant at a very young age before they can truly remember their families back home. While Ahsoka Tano was discovered by Master Plo Koon at the typical age of three, her master, Anakin Skywalker, was nine years old when he was brought to the Jedi. This may initially seem like an … Anakin born 41 BBY. Padme born 46 BBY. 4 year age difference between Anakin and Ahsoka 5 year age difference between Anakin and Padme (I was off by 1 year) Age gaps that are acceptable between adults are unacceptable at younger ages. If you don't understand that, then you shouldn't be allowed near teenagers. Whoa whoa calm down. What is the age difference between Anakin and Padme? Topic Archived; More Topics from this Board. Padme Amidala vs Rey. 67 posts, 2/17 12:13AM. They confessed their love for each other as they were about to die. Amidala women (aka Leia and Padme) were never people to take the back seat. Padme could've taken cover during the arena battle with Anakin protecting her, but no she picked up a blaster and fought alongside him. They werent a normal couple.In 'The Phantom Menace' (set in 32 BBY) Anakin is aged 9 and Padmé is 14. He turns ten during the film. By the time of their …Oct 27, 2022 · The age difference between Anakin and Padme is a crucial plot point in the Star Wars prequel trilogy, as it helps to highlight the forbidden nature of their relationship. As we all know that due to Star Wars Universe, Jedi are not supposed to have close relationships with others, but Anakin and Padme's love is too strong to ignore. What is the age gap between Anakin and Leia? Those 5 years have been the difference between night and day between the two for a long time. Because Leia was 18 at the time, whereas anakin was 9. The problem is not so much the age difference, it’s that 5 years between a 9 and 14 is a much bigger deal than between a 19 and 24 year old.Unofficial community for Star Wars, an American epic space opera franchise, created by George Lucas and centered around a film series that began with the eponymous 1977 movie. Issue with Anakin and Padme's relationship. People always excuse the lack of chemistry and awkwardness by saying "it's an accurate representation of teenage …:- Devotees of (Star Wars) Anakin and Padme are looking for the age distinctions between both. In this article, you will learn about What is the age distinction among Anakin and Padme. What is the age distinction among Anakin and Padme? There is a five years age distinction among Anakin and Padme. Padme(Padme Amidala) is …In an interview with Empire magazine from 1999, George Lucas got candid about the love story between Anakin and Padme that began in Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace, acknowledging the fans' issues around the fact that Anakin was 9 years old when he met Padme, and she was 14.DGAP-News: Schweizer Electronic AG / Key word(s): Interim Report Schweizer Electronic AG: Schweizer Electronic AG: Business performa... DGAP-News: Schweizer Electronic AG ...We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us.Forbidden Love Chapter 1: Greetings, a star wars fanfic | FanFiction. Movies Star Wars. Forbidden Love By: Writer Wannabe. A different take on the A/P romance where Padmé is the seducer and Anakin is the young Jedi trying to resist her. Rated: Fiction M - English - Romance/Drama - Anakin Skywalker, Padmé Amidala - Chapters: 20 - Words: 55,470 ...Yes. Obi-Wan is 25, Qui-Gon is 48, Padmé is 14, and Anakin is 9. Obi-Wan is 16 years older than Anakin. Reply. Tezmir94. • 4 yr. ago. Just goes to show how powerful Anakin was. At the age of 22/23 he was one of the very best Jedi in the whole order behind only Yoda and Mace (Obi-Wan too, but I think that was more due to arrogance and poor ...The Oscars delivered a powerful message: Achievement doesn't have an expiration date and success is possible at or near retirement age. By clicking "TRY IT", I agree to receive new...The Information Age moved society from an industry-based economy to an information-based economy. It has generated research, work, commerce and new forms of entertainment and has g...Most Jedi are brought to the Temple on Coruscant at a very young age before they can truly remember their families back home. While Ahsoka Tano was discovered by Master Plo Koon at the typical age of three, her master, Anakin Skywalker, was nine years old when he was brought to the Jedi. This may initially seem like an …Padmé Amidala Skywalker (born Padmé Naberrie) is a fictional character and the tritagonist of the Star Wars prequel trilogy. She also appeared in the Clone Wars movie and series. She was the woman for whom Anakin Skywalker forsook everything he had, even his own humanity, to love and protect, though this instead ended up backfiring on him tragically. …24 and 19 isn't that weird of an age gap, esp. considering she showed no interest in him until he was an adult. The only thing unusual about it is that couples with a 4-5 older wife are less common than a couple with a 4-5 older husband.They confessed their love for each other as they were about to die. Amidala women (aka Leia and Padme) were never people to take the back seat. Padme could've taken cover during the arena battle with Anakin protecting her, but no she picked up a blaster and fought alongside him. They werent a normal couple.Canon has a 5 year age difference, but Natalie Portman is eight years older than Jake Lloyd. On screen, Padme reads as a young adult and Anakin reads as an absolute child. I think it’s meeting at those very different life stages that makes it weird for me. ETA: for me, it would be less weird if they had met at older ages. EDIT OMG typosHowever, there is an age difference between the two characters, with Padmé being older than Anakin. At the time of their marriage in Attack of the Clones, Padmé is 24 years old, whie Anakin is 19. This means that there is a 5-year age difference between the two characters. It is worth noting that Anakin was originally supposed to be 12 years ...The age difference is appropriate and necessary. To put it bluntly Anakin is way more into Padme than the other way around and this is intentional and set up by their age difference. Padme is a character who is meant to put her duty to her society and work above all this mounting Anakin’s frustrations with the state of the world even more.The best age to learn a new language is explained in this article from HowStuffWorks. Learn about the best age to learn a new language. Advertisement You're expecting a brand new b...What is the age difference between Padme and Anakin? 0. Share. Star Wars: Episode II – Attack of the Clones takes place 10 years after, and Anakin is 19 while Padmé is 24. Because of this progression, Hayden Christensen …Mar 15, 2024 · The Star Wars prequel trilogy established Padmé was older than Anakin when they first met. Anakin and Padmé had to grow up quickly due to their respective roles as a Jedi and a politician ... We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us.Jan 14, 2014 · Les personnages: - À l'âge de 14 ans, Padmé devient démocratiquement la souveraine du peuple de la planète Naboo et gouverne sous le nom de Padmé Amidala. - Anakin âgé est quant à lui âgé de 9 ans lorsqu'il est découvert par Qui-Gon sur la planète Tatouine. L'écart entre les personnages n'est donc que de 5 ans, ce qui en soi n'est ... Men who are unemployed for more than two years show signs of faster aging in their DNA, according to a study published in the journal PLOS ONE. Men who are unemployed for more tha...Alors, quelle est la différence d'âge entre Anakin et Padmé ? Dans Star Wars : Épisode I – La menace fantôme, Anakin est un esclave de neuf ans surPublished Nov 6, 2021. The relationship between Anakin and Padme was a central part of the Star Wars prequel trilogy, with the young Jedi proving his love many times. The romance between Anakin Skywalker and Padme Amidala in Star Wars ultimately proves to be the deciding factor that sees Anakin turn to the Dark Side, being the crucial element ...Same age gap, but different relationship types and life stages. Anakin and Padme are both adults with a five year age difference (Padme was 14 in TPM, Anakin 9). However, in TCW Anakin meets Ahsoka when he's 19 and she's 14. That would be the equivalent of a college freshman/sophomore hitting on a high school freshman, thus way more creepy.DGAP-News: Schweizer Electronic AG / Key word(s): Interim Report Schweizer Electronic AG: Schweizer Electronic AG: Business performa... DGAP-News: Schweizer Electronic AG ... Star Wars: The Age Difference Between Anakin and Padme, Explained The Star Wars prequels saw Anakin Skywalker break the Jedi Code by secretly marrying Padm Amidala, but how much of an age gap was ... Learned something I guess, I always thought Ahsoka was much younger than that, not sure if its because she was portrayed as such or that Anakin was portrayed as being older, or what. Heres another one for you: the age difference between Padme and Anakin is only 4-5 years as well. In The Phantom Menace, Padme is only 14 years old.Age difference between Padmé and Anakin Skywalker in Star Wars Episodes 1-3 Image: Lucasfilm. How a woman like that ended up drawn to a guy like Anakin Skywalker is unclear. He was 9 when they first met in The Phantom Menace, around 19 in Attack of the Clones, and around 22 in Revenge of the Sith. Maybe she …What is the age difference between Anakin and Obi Wan? Darth Vader, the man that was Anakin Skywalker until his early twenties, is now a 32-year-old Sith Lord in his evil prime. By contrast, the once-optimistic Obi-Wan Kenobi is weaker: a 48-year-old former Jedi trying to part ways not only with his past but with The Force itself.Age difference Padme, Anakin. Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by xNito, May 26, ... Kirsten Dunst or Kristin Kreuk as your girlfriend if you were at my age.Anakin was able to gain a year in the ten year period. Anakin and Padme would have been the same age in 40 more years if she hadn't died. However, because Tatooine has 2 suns, Anakin could decide to use the second calculation bu then he would only be 12. Only the people on Mos Eisly use the age metric of the second sun. Problem …Star Wars: The Age Difference Between Anakin and Padme, Explained The Star Wars prequels saw Anakin Skywalker break the Jedi Code by secretly marrying Padm Amidala, but how much of an age gap was ...C’est à ce moment, quand Anakin avait 19 ans et Padmé 24 ans, que les 2 ont développé des sentiments sincères l’un pour l’autre et se sont mariés en secret. La prochaine étape majeure à laquelle Anakin et Padmé ont fait face ensemble s’est produite 3 ans plus tard, lors des événements de Star Wars: Episode III – La Revanche ...May 16, 2022 · The age difference between the two seemed very drastic at the time, partly because the age difference between the two actors was much bigger and more visible. Anakin’s actor Jake Lloyd was eight at the time of filming The Phantom Menace, and Padme’s actor Natalie Portman was sixteen when she played the then fourteen-year-old Padmé Amidala. In 'The Phantom Menace' (set in 32 BBY) Anakin is aged 9 and Padmé is aged 14. He turns ten during the film. By the time of their (sexual) relationship in Attack …Bullies can make our lives difficult at any age—even when you’re an adult—but you don’t have to sit by and take undeserved punishment from someone bigger, louder, or meaner than yo...Originally, according to the book, George Lucas imagined Anakin being around 12 years old in "The Phantom Menace." However, that didn't seem to work for some of the bigger moments in the story ...In Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, Padmé is now a senator representing Naboo in the Galactic Senate, while Anakin has grown up and become a Jedi Knight. At this point, Padmé is 24 years old, while Anakin is 19 years old. Despite the five-year age difference, the two characters continue to fall in love and eventually get married.Anakin Skywalker and Padmé Amidala have one of the most influential romances in the entire Star Wars saga. But long before the two started dating, the prequel trilogy established a sizable age gap between the two characters.Knowing the ideal age to start claiming your social security benefits can be tricky. The terminologies and processes are sometimes difficult to follow. And you could receive signif...In Marvel's recent Star Wars comics , Anakin 's influence has made Padmé more aggressive. Anakin is known for being reckless and jumping into danger, but being around him causes others to begin exhibiting the same behaviors. Written by Jody Houser with art by Cory Smith and Wilton Santos, Star Wars: Age of the Republic - Padmé …Updated December 11, 2023, by Josh Cotts.The age difference between Padmé Amidala and Anakin Skywalker continues to be a topic discussed by the fandom, as well as those unfamiliar with the ...December 9, 2023 Tag Vault. In the Star Wars prequel trilogy, the age difference between Anakin Skywalker and Padme Amidala plays a significant role in their forbidden love …"With who?" Padme demanded. "Han Solo," Anakin told her. "I'll kill her! I told her no dating until she's seventeen, the same for Luke, and she goes behind my back and starts dating a man ten years her senior!" Padme seethed. "I didn't know about the large age difference," Anakin grumbled disapprovingly. "How did you find out? Did she tell you?Yeah, frankly by Episode III, do Padme and Anakin really even know each other all that well? They spent like a week maybe on Naboo together, then they get married, and then Anakin is off to war for months at a time. ... Still a pretty big age difference, but at least better. Reply reply more reply More replies. Munedawg53 ...Elle reçut alors la visite d'Obi-Wan Kenobi qui apprit à Padmé qu'Anakin avait assassiné tous les Jedi, même les novices, et qu'il avait tourné le dos au Côté Lumineux.Mais la jeune femme, amoureuse, ne put se résoudre à accepter ce que venait de lui dire son ami Kenobi. Elle décida alors de rejoindre son mari sur Mustafar.. Lorsqu'elle le revit, il avait …Underpinned by faith in technology. It may be called the “sunset years” or the “twilight of our lives,” but most Indians look forward to their old age. Only about a quarter of Indi...Just like in Attack of the Clones, Natalie Portman was 22 years old when production began on Revenge of the Sith, and the same young age as Anakin when he was defeated on Mustafar. However, she was 24 years old when her third and final Star Wars film finally premiered in 2005. The Star Wars prequel trilogy is available to stream on Disney +.Padmé was born in the year 46 BBY on Naboo, and Anakin was born five years later, in the year 41 BBY. That makes Padmé five years older than Anakin. How old was Padmé when she died?Padme loves Anakin because he levels with her. Because they are different, but understand each other. Because he is a handsome, strong, and respectable member of a prestigious order. When Vader saves Luke, Vader is also saving Anakin and the spirit of Padme. Vader is saving his family.Padmé Amidala (née Naberrie) is a fictional character in the Star Wars franchise, appearing in the prequel trilogy and portrayed by Natalie Portman.First indirectly mentioned in Return of the Jedi, she is introduced in The Phantom Menace as the teenage Queen of Naboo, and after her reign, becomes a senator and an anti-war activist in the Galactic Senate.There wouldn't have been as much outrage than if Padme was 9 and Anakin was 14. Our society has a cultural idea that women are so weak compared to men that even if a girl or woman is older, she will be outmatched by even a young boy. ... That age difference is the norm in most Hollywood movies. Most leading men end up with women that were born ...In Marvel's recent Star Wars comics , Anakin 's influence has made Padmé more aggressive. Anakin is known for being reckless and jumping into danger, but being around him causes others to begin exhibiting the same behaviors. Written by Jody Houser with art by Cory Smith and Wilton Santos, Star Wars: Age of the Republic - Padmé …She debuted in 1999’s ‘Star Wars: The Phantom Menace,’ which takes place in 32 BBY. That means Padmé was 14 years old in ‘Episode I.’. Following a 10-year time jump, ‘Episode II — Attack of the Clones,’ takes place in 22 BBY, when Padmé was 24 years old. The final movie of the prequel trilogy, ‘Revenge of the Sith,’ takes ... Anakin Skywalker and Padmé Amidala have one of the most influential romances in the entire Star Wars saga. But long before the two started dating, the prequel trilogy established a sizable age gap between the two characters. In 'The Phantom Menace' (set in 32 BBY) Anakin is aged 9 and Padmé is aged 14. He turns ten during the film. By the time of their (sexual) relationship in Attack of the Clones, set ten years later, in 22 BBY, he was 20 and she was 24. That means that the age-difference is just 4 ish years.Padmé Is Five Years Older Than Anakin Skywalker. Trivia. Much like her character in The Phantom Menace, actress Natalie Portman was only sixteen years old when the movie began filming. It was only her seventh acting credit. Padmé's age wasn't immediately obvious in The Phantom Menace.The relationships of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader from the Star Wars universe. Anakin first met Padmé on Tatooine, they were five years apart in age. She was so beautiful he asked her if she was an angel, however, later when he found out that she was the Queen of Naboo, he became embarrassed but at the same time disappointed that she had lied to …Dans Star Wars : Épisode I – La menace fantôme, Anakin est un esclave de neuf ans sur Tatooine, tandis que Padmé est la reine de Naboo, âgée de 14 ans.Except it wouldn't, because Obi-Wan acknowledged that pursuing a relationship while staying in the order was against the code and didn't pursue it. He rejected the attachment. Even his admission to her in Clone Wars still refers to a path more honest than Anakin's. He said he would have left the order to be with her.

:- Devotees of (Star Wars) Anakin and Padme are looking for the age distinctions between both. In this article, you will learn about What is the age distinction among Anakin and Padme. What is the age distinction among Anakin and Padme? There is a five years age distinction among Anakin and Padme. Padme(Padme Amidala) is five years more .... Abcmouse com tv commercial

Same age gap, but different relationship types and life stages. Anakin and Padme are both adults with a five year age difference (Padme was 14 in TPM, Anakin 9). However, in TCW Anakin meets Ahsoka when he's 19 and she's 14. That would be the equivalent of a college freshman/sophomore hitting on a high school freshman, thus way more creepy. Homeworld. Naboo. Padmé Amidala (née Naberrie) is a fictional character in the Star Wars franchise, appearing in the prequel trilogy and portrayed by Natalie Portman. First indirectly mentioned in Return of the Jedi, she is introduced in The Phantom Menace as the teenage Queen of Naboo, and after her reign, becomes a senator and an anti-war ... But long before the two started dating, the prequel trilogy established a sizable age gap between the two characters. This diminishes over time as Anakin and Padmé enter …Forbidden Love Chapter 1: Greetings, a star wars fanfic | FanFiction. Movies Star Wars. Forbidden Love By: Writer Wannabe. A different take on the A/P romance where Padmé is the seducer and Anakin is the young Jedi trying to resist her. Rated: Fiction M - English - Romance/Drama - Anakin Skywalker, Padmé Amidala - Chapters: 20 - Words: 55,470 ...Padmé is Five Years Older Than Anakin Skywalker In actuality, Padmé was just 14 years old in The Phantom Menace. When she ventured to Tatooine and met an enslaved young boy named Anakin Skywalker -- who took an immediate shine to her -- Anakin was just nine years old. Is Padme too old for Anakin? She had always behaved older than her age and had recently become the youngest Queen of Naboo, but she too was still fairly young in years. Padmé was born in the year 46 BBY on Naboo, and Anakin was born five years later, in the year 41 BBY. That makes Padmé five years older than Anakin. Anakin was born in 41BBY, so their age difference is 16 years. The master-apprentice duel is featured many times in the saga. First, in Revenge of the Sith when Obi-Wan is thirty-eight and Anakin ... En La Amenaza Fantasma, Padmé, a sus 14 años, ya llevaba la corona de Naboo, mientras Anakin, con solo 9 años, luchaba con las cadenas de la esclavitud. Esta diferencia de edad, aunque sutil ...Originally, according to the book, George Lucas imagined Anakin being around 12 years old in "The Phantom Menace." However, that didn't seem to work for some of the bigger moments in the story ...In actuality, Padmé was just 14 years old in Episode I when she met Anakin Skywalker, a 9-year-old enslaved boy on Tatooine, who took an immediate shine to her. …Jan 21, 2024 · Anakin Skywalker was 22 years old in Revenge of the Sith, a crucial moment when he falls to the dark side and becomes Darth Vader. Darth Vader was 44 years old when he confronted Luke on Bespin in The Empire Strikes Back, attempting to seduce his son to the dark side. Anakin Skywalker's age has been a contentious topic when discussing the Star ... Age difference Padme, Anakin. Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by xNito, May 26, 2005. Thread Status: Not open for further replies. ... Isn't Padme a little to old for Anakin? In TPH she looks to be 13-18 and Anakin looks to be 6. Then in ATOC Anakin is like 16? and Padme looks to be like 25+. xNito, May 26, 2005 #1. JediLord …Some people say age is just a number, and we couldn't agree more! However, you're still more likely to have racked-up a ton of experiences with more years under your belt. Advertis...It is only a 5 year age difference in the first place, and the second movie takes place about 10 years later. It makes sense looking at it. In the first movie Anakin is 9, and Padme is only 14. Plus, with costumes in the first movie, Padme is …Die Hochzeit von Anakin Skywalker und Padmé Amidala war eine Hochzeit zwischen dem Jedi-Padawan Anakin Skywalker und der Senatorin Padmé Amidala. Sie fand im Jahr 22 VSY auf Naboo im Seenland statt. Die Trauung des Brautpaares wurde auf dem Balkon von Varykino, dem Landsitz der Familie Naberrie, von Maxiron Agolerga, einem hohen …Star Wars Wiki Wikipedia. Padmé Amidala Naberrie, commonly called simply Padmé, is a fictional character in the Star Wars franchise. In-universe, she is a politician from the planet of Naboo, serving as its elected queen and later its senator. She is also the wife of Anakin Skywalker, together with whom she had two children, Luke and Leia.Amelia Hill. Updated on 08/15/18. Born Padmé Naberrie, Padmé Amidala served as the Queen—and later, Senator—of the planet of Naboo. She met and secretly married the Jedi Anakin Skywalker and had two children, Luke and Leia. Padmé played an important role in the politics of the Clone Wars and, before her tragic early death, planted the ...In Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, Padmé is now a senator representing Naboo in the Galactic Senate, while Anakin has grown up and become a Jedi Knight. At this point, Padmé is 24 years old, while Anakin is 19 years old. Despite the five-year age difference, the two characters continue to fall in love and eventually get married.EQS-News: DIC Asset AG / Key word(s): Change in Forecast DIC Asset AG: annual forecast for 2022 adjusted 02.11.2022 / 18:34 CE... EQS-News: DIC Asset AG / Key word(s...Anakin and Padmé got married on 22 BBY and just shortly after the conclusion of the First Battle of Geonosis and the start of the Clone Wars. Because they wanted the wedding to be a secret, they got married on Padmé’s home planet of Naboo, which was away from the eyes of the Jedi and the Republic. Let’s not forget that Naboo is one of the ...Well, there is about a 5 year difference between the two in TPM, making Padme about 24 when they end up together in AOTC. I don't think that it is "Padme is so much older" but that Lucas decided to make Anakin younger than he initially thought. From what I recall (and it's been a while so I might mess it up) Anakin was around 11 or 12 initially ....

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